Charismatics have a new apologist. Please welcome, Echo!

February 7, 2007 at 7:56 pm (God thoughts)

OK So I realize I am probably going to get some flack for this but I couldn’t help but notice something strangely familiar about Echo’s arguments for alcohol. Then it dawned on me, I’ve said stuff like this before, but on an entirely different subject. So (I hope with little complaint from the E-machine), I present to you how Echo would argue for the charismatic position if he wasn’t opposed to it. The italics are mine (From I Corinthians 12)

This is going to sound really foreign, but please hear me out. Wine interpretation of tongues is part of the goodness of creation. It is a GOOD thing. God gave it to us – it is a gift to be enjoyed to his glory. To use wine tongues PROPERLY – that is, not an abusive way as I have described – actually brings God glory. It glorifies him.

Here are some things that are similar. Enjoying gifts that God has given us, such as enjoying your spouse, enjoying beautiful flowers, enjoying a sunset, etc. The enjoyment of these things brings God glory, because the enjoyment of them is a manifestation of our gratitude for his gifts. If we are grateful that God gave us the wife he did, then we will enjoy her, to his glory. If we are grateful for the sunsets he gives us, we will enjoy them, to show our gratitude.

Imagine you give a child a toy for Christmas. How do you know he appreciates it? He plays with it, right? And how do you know if he doesn’t like it and doesn’t appreciate it? When he doesn’t play with it.

Now, pretend you’re a child, and God has given you a gift. Wine distinguishing between spirits. Enjoy it to his glory, because you’re GRATEFUL to him for it. You APPRECIATE it.

When you advise people not to drink prophesy for any reason, you are denying that God has given us wine spiritual gifts, and that it is a GOOD gift. If it is a good gift, then we should enjoy it. If we shouldn’t use it, then how could it be a good gift at the same time?

When you don’t drink use miraculous powers out of fear of alcoholism abusing the power , or fear of legalism, or whatever other reason, for the sake of the weaker brother, whatever – you are saying to God that his gifts are not good. You are the child who doesn’t play with the toy he has been given.

You will of course disagree, and that’s fine.

I’m not asking you to see it my way. But you keep acting as if I am obstinately insisting that I have a RIGHT to drink use my gifts of healing, and who cares about the weaker brother. That’s not my argument, and I wish you’d stop making it on my behalf. Your characterization of what is on my heart is patently false, and is absurd. I have never said that I have a right to alcohol faith, and I have never said that I want to be a stumbling block or that I don’t care if I am a stumbling block. What I have said is that the law of God doesn’t forbid us to drink use spiritual gifts, and in fact, the Bible says that God GAVE US WINE MANIFESTATION’S OF THE SPIRIT to make our hearts glad the common good of the church. When we refuse to drink it use them, for whatever reason, well, you’re refusing to partake of God’s goodness.

I’m not quite ready to say that refusing to drink have a message of knowledge is sinful, but I think the attitude behind it “sucks”. It totally sucks. I am extremely offended at the attitude. I find it to be arrogant. I can’t seem to get past it. Maybe I’m out of line, but I see it like refusing to look at sunsets. Now, I’m not a moron, I recognize that sunsets and alcohol the message of wisdom are two very different things, but they ARE similar in that they are both good gifts from God meant to be enjoyed. That’s their purpose, to be enjoyed. And God is revealed to us in those gifts, so there’s a real sense in which enjoying the gifts of God is enjoying GOD himself. And when we refuse to acknowledge the goodness of those gifts, well, it seems like refusing to acknowledge God is good.

As a matter of fact, I do think it’s sinful to refuse to acknowledge that alcohol spiritual gifting is a good gift from God meant to be enjoyed, “to make the heart glad edify the church”. If you cannot acknowledge that God has given us alcohol a manifestation of the Spirit for our enjoyment common good, you are denying what the Scripture says. I can’t get around it.

I’m really sorry. I know you find me appalling. You all probably do. But what can I do? Should I lie to you about what I see in the Scriptures? Should I just tell you what you want to hear to make you feel better? I know I’m coming across as accusing all of you of sin. But which of us isn’t a sinner? I’m not condemning you. Wouldn’t it be great if we all could see our own sin as clearly as the sin of others and repented regularly, confessing our sins to one another freely because of our certain hope in Christ’s forgiveness?

I refuse to deny the goodness of creation and of the Spirit.



  1. itsasecret2u said,

    You are SOOOOO gonna get it…

  2. Echo_ohcE said,


    Very clever, Daniel, very clever.


  3. Albino Hayford said,

    Spot on, Daniel.

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